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First - Why are Martyrs so Important in Revelation? - 2/20/2010 - [6-141; 2/21]
Second - Why Martyrs Remain Under the Altar - 2/23/2010 - [0-49; 2/23]
Third - Seven Critical Stages at "End of Time" - 2/25/2010 - [0-97; 2/25]
Fourth - Great and Wonderful Sign in Heaven - 2/27/2010 -
Fifth - Incarnation, Incrimination, Indictment - 3/1/2010 -
Sixth - Great Storm Connects 7th Seal, Trumpet, Plague - 3/3/2010
Seventh - Firstfruit unto God and Lamb - 3/14/2010
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Why are Martyrs so Important in Revelation?
1. Martyrs prove necessity for a single 12 Hour Day of the Lord.
2. They remain under "Altar" until all who must be killed are killed.
3. Martyrs appear at the most critical points in the Book of Revelation.
4. First prayer to God in Revelation comes from the souls of Martyrs.
5. The souls of Martyrs “dress in white robes and carry palm branches”.
6. None Enter the Temple in heaven until all the martyrs are killed.
7. They sing the victory song of Moses prior to entering the Temple.
8. The Firstfruit unto God and the Lamb appear first with the Martyrs.
9. They all “stand before God on a crystal sea mixed with fire” (Dan.7; Rev.15).
10. Their songs precede entrance into the presence of God and the Lamb.
11. They sing their 2 songs AFTER the 7 Plagues “exhaust God's patience”.
12. Then the “Temple of the Tabernacle of the Testimony opens” in heaven.
13. Smoke of God's glory and power filled the Temple during the Plagues.
14. All the Saints praise God in the Open Temple Drama...ACT ONE.
15. Martyrs will “serve God in heaven and be shepherded by the Lamb.
16. God's promise to avenge all the Martyrs leads quickly to ACT TWO.
17. Half of an hour's evidence by 6 Trumpet Angels incriminates the wicked.
18. Angel of Fire renders the Tribunal's verdict; casts fiery coals to earth.
19. ACT 3: Christ is King; Nations are wrathful; God's Wrath has come.
20. 7th Angel proclaims the time for Saints' Resurrection and Rewards has come.
21. The only “appointed time to destroy the destroyers of earth” has come.
22. Saints rejoice as the Cup of Anger-Wrath pours out deadly wine.
23. Saints on earth “blessed while watching for Christ's coming as a thief”.
24. Saints prepare for the Lamb's wedding at the Synagogue in the sky.
25. Christ descends WITH and FOR all those raised up on the Lastday.
26. He gathers-glorifies all the bodies of surviving Saints from the earth.
27. Souls of Martyrs who sat in judgment included in the First Resurrection.
Support for each 27-12-Worded Summary will Follow in Succeeding Posts.
The Summaries are Based on the Lastday Order of Major Events Below.
ORDER OF EVENTS VERSES
I. Letters to Seven Churches – Rev.1-3........................................71
II. Heaven's Throne, Scroll, Lamb – Rev.4-5..................................25
III. Pre-Endtime Events
....1. Background: First Advent – Rev.12:1-5..................................5
....2. Introduction to Endtime – Rev.10:1-11.................................11
....3. Seal One: White Horseman – Rev.6:1-2..................................2
....4. Mystery Babylon Rules – Rev.17:1 to 18:19..............................37....151
IV. ENDTIME
....1. Catalysts: Satan; Kingdom Power – 12:6-17............................12
....2. Seal Two: Red Horseman – Rev.6:3-4....................................2
....3. Persecution of Saints – Rev.13:1-18....................................18
....4. Two Prophets to Restore all Things – 11:1-11..........................11
....5. Seal Three to Seal Five – Rev.6:5-11.....................................7
....6. Four Trumpet Judgments – Rev.8:6-13...................................8
....7. Fifth Trumpet – First Woe – Rev.9:1-12.................................12
....8. Five Plagues – Rev.15:6 to 16:11.........................................14
V. CRISIS
....9. Trumpet Six – Second Woe – Rev.9:13-21.................................9
....10. Plague Six – Armageddon Looms – Rev.16:12-14........................3....247
VI. LASTDAY
....1. Blessing; Armies Threaten; Plague 7; God Decrees – 16:15-17.........3
....2. Seal Six follows Decree Immediately – Rev.6:12-17......................6
....3. Sealing of 144,000 Jewish Firstfruit – Rev.7:1-8.........................8
....4. Rescue of 144,000 from Mt. Zion – Rev.14:1-5...........................5
....5. Warnings across Sky; Last Martyrs – Rev.14:6-13........................8
....6. Reaping to Winepress in Great Anger – Rev.14-19.......................6
....7. GREAT, WONDERFUL SIGN; God's Great Deeds – Rev.15:1-5...........5
....8. Two Prophets Rise Up; Ascend to Heaven – Rev.11:12-14..............3
....9. Temple Opens; ACT ONE: Saints' Testimony – Rev.7:9-17..............9
....10. ACT TWO: Seal 7's Tribunal - Rev.8:1-5; Dan.7.......................5
....11. ACT THREE: Trump 7's Triumph – Rev.11:15-19.......................5
....12. Rejoicing over Babylon's 2nd Fall – Rev.18:20 to 19:6................11
....13. Lamb's Wedding Announced; Christ Descends - 19:7-10..............4
....14. Hour of Trial on all of Earth's Inhabitants – Rev.16:18-21.............4
....15. God's Anger and Wrath Combined – 19:11-19; Rev.14:20............10
....16. Evil Trio Imprisoned – Rev.19:20 to Rev.20:3...........................5
....17. Flashback to Judgment by/Reward for Martyrs – 20:4-6...............3....347
VII. MILLENNIUM AND FINAL JUDGMENT – 20:7-15...............................9
VIII. NEW HEAVEN, EARTH, NEW JERUSALEM – Rev.21,22....................48....404
....Decree of Rev.16:17 results in 12 Events between it and Rev.16:18!
....One Hundred Verses (247 to 347) describe the Day of Lord Events!!
....Great, Wonderful Sign is based on evidence described in 6 Plagues!!!
....This Scene and its two Songs follow Seal 6 AFTER the 7th Plague Empties!
....Decree anticipates Seal 6 and the Great Sign anticipates the Temple Drama!!
....Seal 7 provides the Evidence from 6 Trumpet Judgments to Indict the Wicked!!!
Mel Miller
First Topic Posted to Prophecy Newswatch - 2/20/2010 - 10:00 AM
Why are Martyrs Important in the Book of Revelation?
Today I begin a third month with Friends, many whom I admire for having good “spirits”.
I wish to be bold enough to enter my first Topic on my interest in the Book of Revelation.
You may realize my pet project is to promote the view of ONE 12-Hour Day of the Lord.
Support for Each of these 27 Summaries will Follow in Succeeding Posts:
1. Martyrs prove the necessity for ONE 12 Hour Day of the Lord.
2. They remain under "Altar" until all who must be killed are killed.
3. Martyrs appear at the most critical points in the Book of Revelation.
4. First prayer to God in Revelation comes from the souls of Martyrs.
5. The souls of Martyrs “dress in white robes and carry palm branches”.
6. None Enter the Temple in heaven until all the martyrs are killed.
7. They sing the victory song of Moses prior to entering the Temple.
8. The Firstfruit unto God and the Lamb appear first with the Martyrs.
9. They all “stand before God on a crystal sea mixed with fire” (Dan.7; Rev.15).
10. Their songs precede entrance into the presence of God and the Lamb.
11. They sing their 2 songs AFTER the 7 Plagues “exhaust God's patience”.
12. Then the “Temple of the Tabernacle of the Testimony opens” in heaven.
13. Smoke of God's glory and power filled the Temple during the Plagues.
14. All the Saints praise God in the Open Temple Drama...ACT ONE.
15. Martyrs will “serve God in heaven and be shepherded by the Lamb.
16. God's promise to avenge all the Martyrs leads quickly to ACT TWO.
17. Half of an hour's evidence by 6 Trumpet Angels incriminates the wicked.
18. Angel of Fire renders the Tribunal's verdict; casts fiery coals to earth.
19. ACT 3: Christ is King; Nations are wrathful; God's Wrath has come.
20. 7th Angel proclaims the time for Saints' Resurrection and Rewards has come.
21. The only “appointed time to destroy the destroyers of earth” has come.
22. Saints rejoice as the Cup of Anger-Wrath pours out deadly wine.
23. Saints on earth “blessed while watching for Christ's coming as a thief”.
24. Saints prepare for the Lamb's wedding at the Synagogue in the sky.
25. Christ descends WITH and FOR all those raised up on the Lastday.
26. He gathers-glorifies all the bodies of surviving Saints from the earth.
27. Souls of Martyrs who sat in judgment included in the First Resurrection.
These Summaries are Based on the Lastday Order of its Major Events (as seen below).
In this first post, please consider what may be the reason why Martyrs are so important.
The purpose of Revelation is to prepare Believers to be “overcomers”...even unto death.
Two of Five Endtime Catalysts make this fact known at the onset of the Great Tribulation.
CATALYST #ONE – Rev.12:7-9:
7: There was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8: And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent,
called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
CATALYST #TWO – Rev.12:10-13:
10: And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power
of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11: They overcame
him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12: Therefore
rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto
you, having great wrath (anger; thumos; #2372), because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13: And when the dragon saw
that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
GREAT TRIBULATION – Rev.12:6, 14-17 - Three and a Half Times = 42 Months; 1260 Days.
[From Updated Version of the KJV].6: The woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two
hundred and threescore days. 14: And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness,
into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15: And the serpent
cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16: And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17: And
the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of
God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
We see the Period of Time during which Believers “overcame Satan
by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony;
and they loved not their lives unto the death”.
The Woman fled into the desert where she would be nourished for 1260 days. Satan was cast from heaven and he persecuted the Women;
but she fled to a safe place having been prepared in advance by God
(Perfect Participle) where she would be kept from the face of the Serpent. Satan's anger (of vs.12) turned to wrath (orgitzo; #3710) in verse 17
as he “came away from the place of safety to make war with the Believing remnant of the Woman's spiritual offspring...who keep
God's commands and the testimony of Jesus”...for 1260 days.
ENDTIME BELIEVERS WILL BE VICTORIOUS
This Opening Endtime Text presents the warfare in heaven leading to Satan's eviction which results in persecution and death to the Saints.
But note the “NOW of God's Kingdom Power and Authority of His Christ” ...not only in casting Satan from heaven; but to empower the
Two Witnesses who protect and feed the Remnant.
“Standing before the God of earth they manifest His Power”.
Rev.11:4. It's this POWER to which Jesus referred for the source of VICTORY by those who face death in the days of His
Coming in Kingdom Power...when He is “about to come in glory and when some would not taste death until they see that Power demonstrated”
on their behalf for 1260 days. Matt.16:27-28.
Many have wondered why Robert Stephanus, 460 years ago, separated Mark's counterpart to that of Matt.16:28 and put it in the
next chapter as part of the Transfiguration experience that occurred a week afterward! Jesus Christ had Endtime “Overcomers”
in mind after laying out the condition to be “worthy of Him”!! Stephanus didn't realize Jesus had Endtime Martyrs in mind rather
than those of the first century!!!
“Whoever is ashamed of me and my words...the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him
whenever (otan; not ote) He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels. And He was
saying to them (as of a week prior to this): 'Truly I say to you, there are some of those (not “you)
standing here (at the Endtime) who will not taste death until they see the Kingdom of God AFTER
it has come with power'”. Mark 8:38; Mark 9:1.
The NASB, Matt.16:27, uses the expression “about (mellei; #3195) to come” which may suggest that Jesus meant He would come in
the lifetime of the Disciple; but the perfect participle for “after it has come” in Mark 9:1 has caused many, to this day, to think Jesus
was actually “mistaken”! What they have not researched is the 2nd Catalyst of the Endtime in which John states that heaven “rejoices”
because Satan was cast out. Woe would come to earth's inhabitants. But the “NOW” for demonstrating God's Kingdom Power and
Christ's Authority would be the means for “Elijah to (begin to) restore all things”!! Matt.17:11. Jesus affirmed “Elijah was yet to
come” for that Purpose after stating he “had come” . He knew Zacharias had predicted that "John the Baptist was to come in the
spirit and power of Elijah". Matt.11:14; Matt.17:11; Luke 1:17!!!
ORDER OF EVENTS VERSES
I. Letters to Seven Churches – Rev.1-3........................................71
II. Heaven's Throne, Scroll, Lamb – Rev.4-5..................................25
III. Pre-Endtime Events
....1. Background: First Advent – Rev.12:1-5.................................5
....2. Introduction to Endtime – Rev.10:1-11.................................11
....3. Seal One: White Horseman – Rev.6:1-2.................................2
....4. Mystery Babylon Rules – Rev.17:1 to 18:19.............................37....151
IV. ENDTIME
....1. Catalysts: Satan; Kingdom Power – 12:6-17............................12
....2. Seal Two: Red Horseman – Rev.6:3-4....................................2
....3. Persecution of Saints – Rev.13:1-18....................................18
....4. Two Prophets to Restore all Things – 11:1-11..........................11
....5. Seal Three to Seal Five – Rev.6:5-11.....................................7
....6. Four Trumpet Judgments – Rev.8:6-13..................................8
....7. Fifth Trumpet – First Woe – Rev.9:1-12................................12
....8. Five Plagues – Rev.15:6 to 16:11........................................14
V. CRISIS
....9. Trumpet Six – Second Woe – Rev.9:13-21................................9
....10. Plague Six – Armageddon Looms – Rev.16:12-14.......................3....247
VI. LASTDAY
....1. Blessing; Armies Threaten; Plague 7; God Decrees – 16:15-17........3
....2. Seal Six follows Decree Immediately – Rev.6:12-17.....................6
....3. Sealing of 144,000 Jewish Firstfruit – Rev.7:1-8........................8
....4. Rescue of 144,000 from Mt. Zion – Rev.14:1-5..........................5
....5. Warnings across Sky; Last Martyrs – Rev.14:6-13.......................8
....6. Reaping to Winepress in Great Anger – Rev.14-19......................6
....7. GREAT, WONDERFUL SIGN; Great Deeds; Songs – Rev.15:1-5.........5
....8. Two Prophets Rise Up; Ascend to Heaven – Rev.11:12-14.............3
....9. Temple Opens; ACT ONE: Saints' Testimony – Rev.7:9-17.............9
....10. ACT TWO: Seal 7's Tribunal - Rev.8:1-5; Dan.7.......................5
....11. ACT THREE: Trump 7's Triumph – Rev.11:15-19.......................5
....12. Rejoicing over Babylon's 2nd Fall – Rev.18:20 to 19:6................11
....13. Lamb's Wedding Announced; Christ Descends - 19:7-10..............4
....14. Hour of Trial on all of Earth's Inhabitants –
.............4Rev.16:18-21
....15. God's Anger and Wrath Combined – 19:11-19; Rev.14:20............10
....16. Evil Trio Imprisoned – Rev.19:20 to Rev.20:3...........................5
....17. Flashback to Judgment by/Reward for Martyrs – 20:4-6...............3....347
VII. MILLENNIUM AND FINAL JUDGMENT – 20:7-15...............................9
VIII. NEW HEAVEN, EARTH, NEW JERUSALEM – Rev.21,22....................48....404
....Decree of Rev.16:17 results in 12 Events between it and Rev.16:18!
....One Hundred Verses (247 to 347) describe the Day of the Lord Events!!
....Great, Wonderful Sign (#7)is based on evidence described in 6 Plagues!!!
....This Scene and its two Songs follow Seal 6 AFTER the 7th Plague Empties!
....Decree anticipates Seal 6 and the Great Sign anticipates the Temple Drama!!
....Seal 7 provides the Evidence from 6 Trumpet Judgments to Indict the Wicked!!!
Mel Miller
Message sent to Halden Boerge, of WIPF & Stock Publishers - 2/20/2010
5825 Willamette Blvd., Portland, OR. 97203 - Subject Mark 9:1 and Transfiguration
Dear Sir,
The message of Matt.16:27 and Mark 8:38 (in the contexts of Matt.16:28 and Mark 9:1)
has a much deeper meaning than that of seeing Christ Transfigured on the Mount!
Christ wishes to prepare those Endtime believers, who will know His coming in glory
is near, that “some of those (not of you) will still taste death after (perfect participle) they
see Him coming in the “NOW of His Kingdom Power” thru the 2 Prophets for 1260 days!!
This KNOWING and POWER comes with 2 of 5 Catalysts of the Endtime, i.,e., that of
Michael casting Satan from heaven (Rev.12:7-9) and that of Elijah and John coming to
demonstrate “God’s Power and Christ’s Authority and to begin the restoration of all
things” (Rev.12:10-11; Matt.17:11)…so that “none will love their LIFE UNTO DEATH”!!!
Without this interpretation many are still claiming that Jesus was “mistaken”!
Jesus distinguishes between His coming in POWER and coming in GLORY!!
Jesus was thinking specifically of believers as He is “about to come in Glory”!!!
Mel
2/20/2010 - 7:00 PM
Hi Sissy,
You wrote:
Are you saying that Matthew 16:28 and Mark 9:1 are not the same event in the life of Jesus?
Are you saying that in Matthew 16:28 Jesus meant those standing there at the moment, but in Mark 9:1
Jesus meant some standing there at some future time?
I'm sure you agree that Jesus would not contradict Himself. In the Markan account, He emphasized that "those"
of whom He speaks will see Him coming in Kingdom Power before they face death. Even Dr. Charles Holman,
now deceased; but my SS teacher and Professor at Regent University, wrote in his book on the Second Coming
that Jesus was "mistaken" in saying some of THOSE standing there would not die BEFORE they saw Him coming
in Kingdom Power".
In Mark's account Jesus is not talking about His coming in GLORY WITH THE ANGELS as He does in Matthew.
Matthew, unlike Mark, speaks of Jesus coming IN PERSONAL GLORY and rewarding every believer. It is in
Matthew's context that Jesus said: "The Son of Man is ABOUT to come" (Greek; Mello; SHOWING imminent expectation).
In Mark's context, the issue concerns the worthiness to be rewarded!
The issue in Matthew concerns the receipt of well deserved rewards!!
Jesus encourages Endtime survivors to experience His Kingdom presence during the "NOW of His Kingdom POWER
(demonstrated thru the Two Prophets; Rev.12:10-11) so they "love not their life unto death"...so as to be FAITHFUL
and be WORTHY of His reward at His coming in GLORY!!!
There are two Perfect Participles (in Mark alone) that reflect the emphasis on Worthiness during the Endtime as
well as a short time of "tasting death" AFTER they see God's POWER demonstrated! The first (estakotwn, from
istami, #2476, to stand) reveals Jesus' concern for many having stood firm as His Kingdom POWER was manifested through the
Two Prophets for 1260 days... until they are killed!! The second participle (elaluthuian, from erchomai, #2064, to come) prepares
"some who will taste death until the final, unknown hour"...when He comes for them in both Power and
Glory to reward them with the special reward given to Martyrs alone!!!
This explanation is the only way to explain why Stephanus separated Mark 9:1 from what happened 6 or 8 days prior
to meeting them on the Mount of Transfiguration. He had not yet found the answer in Rev.12:10
that applies strictly to the Endtime!
It is the only way to disarm Preterists like William Bell who insist Jesus
came before all the Disciples died as of about 100 AD!!
It is the only way to disprove those who believe in a Pre-Trib or Pre-Plague Rapture who who place Seal Six prior to the
Great Tribulation OR extend the Day of the Lord to an unknown, nebulous period of time beyond the Great Tribulation!!!
Mel
sissy
Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 2492
Sat., Feb 20, 2010 - 7:27 pm
I'm still not sure I'm reading you correctly. It's a bit unclear as to what you are actually stating.
The record in Matthew is definitely speaking of some of those who are standing there at that very moment.
So, either the record in Matthew and Mark are stating the same thing, or Mark is recording another
comment that is not in Matthew. And do you think Luke 9:27 is agreeing with Matthew or Mark?
So, let me ask you flat out.
Are you proposing that Matthew speaks of some of those who were standing there at that very moment,
but Mark is referring to some future folks (instead of the folks there at that very moment that Jesus spoke)?
2/20/2010 - 8:45 PM
Sissy,
Jesus' words in all three accounts SEEM to indicate "some will not die before they see Him coming in the GLORY of His Kingdom".
But Mark, because of the double perfect participle, requires that "some will die AFTER they see Christ coming in POWER as well
as DURING the 42 months in which He comes in Kingdom POWER!
Stephanus could not handle this because he did not realize the "COMING IN POWER" applies only to the 1260 days during which
the Two Prophets demonstrate God's Kingdom Power!!
The "NOW of God's Kingdom POWER and Christ's Authority" precedes that of His coming in GLORY. Mark 8:38, like the other
accounts, mentions the coming with His angels. Stephanus, who made the division into chapters and verses, could not handle
the problem of HOW some could die after He comes in Glory...so he put the final verse, that should have been Mark 8:39, at
Mark 9:1 and the events that occurred 6 to 8 days later;
depending on whether you take "after 6 days" of Mark 9:2 or "about 8 days" of Luke 9:28.
The use of "coming in the GLORY" of His Kingdom occurs in all 3 accounts; but Mark 9:1 alone speaks of His coming in Kingdom POWER! The only other place that refers to His coming in Kingdom POWER is Rev.12:10!!
So, in that special sense, He was not talking about His "coming in PERSON
and GLORY"; but of His coming during the "time, times and half a time" of the same passage in Rev.12:10-14 in order to strengthen the final few (some of those standing here during His Kingdom POWER and STILL facing death in the final days of martyrdom)...but also indicating His coming would include them at His coming in GLORY with the angels to reward them!!!
This is the only way to solve the problem for those who "must taste death until every one who must be killed has been killed" before God avenges
their blood! That is why Christ's coming awaits the death of the last Martyr on the Last Day!! Otherwise, there is no assurance of "knowing the End is imminent" as soon as the Prophets arise and ascend to heaven on the day of the 7th Trumpet...ON THE DAY
God destroys all the wicked but rescues the remnant of His former people who "beg for mercy"!!!
Mel
2/21/2010 - 9:00 PM - To Joshleet
Joshleet,
It seems you have misread or misunderstood what I wrote about
"disproving" Coop's or Tel's approach to the role of Endtime martyrs!
You Wrote:
To state that the sixth seal would occur prior to the great tribulaion, or to state the day of the Lord could occur at some time thereafter, goes against some form of teaching, and an opinion from some other man who's teachings you have apparently ageed with. Joshleet
I actually wrote on Sat.2/20 at 7:00 PM:
Jesus encourages Endtime survivors to experience His Kingdom presence during the "NOW of His Kingdom POWER (demonstrated thru the Two Prophets; Rev.12:10-11) so they "love not their life unto death"...so as to be FAITHFUL and be WORTHY of His reward at His coming in GLORY!!!
It is the only way to disprove those who believe in a Pre-Trib or Pre-Plague Rapture who place Seal Six prior to the Great Tribulation OR extend the Day of the Lord to an unknown, nebulous period of time beyond the 6th Seal which (in my view) IS the single Day of the Lord!!!
The prophecy of Jesus was that "SOME" Endtime Martyrs will taste death AFTER they see the Two Prophets demonstrate God's Kingdom Power during the second Half of Daniel's 70th 7...for 1260 days!
This fact destroys Coop's argument that the Rapture occurs BEFORE the
GT and it destroys Tel's argument that the Rapture occurs in some "nebulous period of time after Seal Six"!! Coop claims Seal Six is before
the End of Time and Tel claims the Day of the Lord ends at some unknown time after the End of time which is at the 7th Trumpet. Rev.10:6-7!!!
Mel
2/23/2010 - 11:30 AM
WHILE MARTYRS REMAIN UNDER THE ALTAR - Second Topic
Rev.6:9-11 Fifth Seal
9: And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them
that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost
thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11: And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them,
that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow-servants also and their
brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Martyrs in Revelation remain "under the Altar until the last Believer is killed who should be killed"!
They are not yet resurrected because they “had been slain”...esphagmenwn, Pft. Part, of #4969!!
They must “rest until the last one is killed who should be killed”...playrwthwsin, A.Subj., of #4137!!!
Their Master, Holy and True, promises them that their waiting time would be short...mikron chronon!
He added: “the death of their fellow-servants was about to occur” (mellontes...Present Part, of #3195!!
He would not “avenge their blood” until the full number to be killed had been fulfilled!!!
This short time is when the Martyrs are given “white robes” to wear until they meet in the Temple!
In the Temple they will also receive Palms as they praise God and the Lamb for the very first time!!
Wearing robes in 6:11 and 7:9 does not mean they are “resurrected” prior to the last Martyrs...certainly not before the "first resurrection"!!!
On earth two billion people will be killed in one hour covering a quarter of the earth's population!
The 6th Trumpet and 6th Plague Judgments occur while Martyrs remain under the Temple Altar!!
God's patience with evil blasphemers of His name continues until the 7th Bowl Plague empties in the air and He decrees: “IT IS DONE”... with armies gathered to Armageddon!!! Rev.16:14-16.
That alone is the Signal for launching Signs and hearing the proclamation that the "DAY OF THE LORD HAS COME"! Rev.6:12-17.
That means Rev.16:12-17 must occur prior to Rev.6:12-17!! That Day is a Single Day...the Day of Signal Events!!!
Mel
2/25/2010 - 7:00 PM - SEVEN CRITICAL STAGES AT THE "END OF TIME"
Friends,
SEVEN CRITICAL STAGES AT “END OF TIME” - Third Topic
Three of 7 Occur Prior to the End; Four Occur on the Last Day:
1. Believers are “blessed” as they suffer at 7 Critical Points of the Endtime – Rev.16:15.
2. Martyrs pray for revenge as their fellow-servants are killed until the End – Seal 5.
3. Believers still waiting for Christ's return as armies gather to Armageddon – Rev.16:14-16.
4. Seventh Plague empties in the air; then God decrees the “End has Come” - Rev.16:17.
5. These 4 critical stages precede the warnings of impending wrath at Seal 6 - Rev.6:12-17.
6. Critical Point to Rescue 144,000 Firstfruit after initial signs of Day of Wrath - Rev.14:1-5.
7. Final warnings: Babylon's Fall, Hell for Beast Worshipers, Winepress for wicked - Rev.14.
Then occurs the victory Song of the Lamb and the victory Song of Martyrs – Rev.15:1-5!
Temple Opens: Drama of Praise in Rev.7, Prayers of Seal 7, Proclamations at Trump #7!!
THE "OPEN TEMPLE" DRAMA: THE TABERNACLE OF TESTIMONY, TRIBUNAL AND TRIUMPH!!! Rev.15:5; Rev.11:19 - "The Temple was Open"
Mel
2/27/2010 - 10:00 AM - GREAT AND WONDERFUL SIGN APPEARS IN HEAVEN - Fourth Topic
Friends:
This Sign and the “Open Temple Drama” Determine the Order of Events in Revelation
Rev.15:1-5
1: And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
2: And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
3: And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
4: Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
5: And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
After the Lamb opens the 6th Seal in Revelation, the Firstfruit of the Fall Harvest are introduced.
They are sealed with the Lamb's name on the Lastday prior to being rescued by the Son of Man.
Their rescue is not described immediately because John first reveals the subjects of the Harvest.
The opening scene presents a countless multitude having “come out of the Great Tribulation”. Rev.7:9-11.
Among this great number are 144,000 Jews whose rescue will be described later in Revelation.
The Harvest involves 12,000 Firstfruit from each of Israel's 12 Tribes according to their names.
Advocates of a Pre-Wrath-Rapture-View argue that this great number had been “Raptured”.
But the “appointed time to Judge and therefore Resurrect all the Saints” occurs at the 7th Trumpet. Rev.11:18.
The living harvested Firstfruit and ALL Martyrs praise God and the Lamb in the Temple first. Rev.7:9-17.
The Firstfruit are first “garnered and presented to God” in order to sing their song of the Lamb.
They “present” the Son of Man to the Ancient of Days as the One worthy to take the Kingdom. Dan.7:13.
Then “all the Saints come with Him, take the Kingdom and give it to the people of the saints”.
Dan.7:13-27.
The Temple had opened for all the Martyrs and the Harvest Firstfruit to praise God and the Lamb.
According to John's method of writing, he first reveals the setting before describing preceding events.
Events associated with the Great and Wonderful Sign prepare for the meeting within the Temple. These events include the 7 Plagues.
The countless Martyrs came out of the Great Tribulation and God decreed the “End had Come”.
They sang the Song of Moses at the Great and Wonderful Sign after the last Bowl had emptied.
The Last Plague suspends in air during their Praise, Prayers and Proclamations by the 7th Trumpet.
God's patience toward wicked men continues until they gather to the plains of Armageddon!
Six Plagues had “demonstrated God's deeds were holy and just” and the wicked intransigent!! Rev.15:1,4; Rev.16:5-9.
The revelation of the Great and Wonderful Sign precedes the Three-Act Drama in the Temple!!!
Mel
2/27/2010 - 11:15 AM - GREAT AND WONDERFUL SIGN
im4God,
And please don't forget the parable of the fig tree,When Israel became a nation was official in 1947 and was openly announced in early 1948,JESUS said that this generation shall not pass away till all these things have been fulfilled and a generation is 70 years so that would put it to about 2017 or if going by the announcement openly 2018 then take 7 years off that for the Tribulation would either be 2010 or 2011 so if you really look at it How far are we to going Home to be with GOD?
Prepare for GOD may call us very soon
GOD bless everyone
The trouble with choosing 2017 is fourfold.
One, there will not be the required Total Blood-Red Lunar Eclipse in 2017!
Two, there's no time for Babylon the Great's rule prior to Antichrist's rule!!
Three, there must be two periods of peace, i.e., one prior to the War of Gog and Magog that requires 7 years to bury the weapons of war and the other that precedes Daniel's 3.5 years "End of Time"!!!
Most important, 4th, 2017 does not allow 2000 years between Christ's return to heaven and His second coming! Only 2033 fulfills the requirement of Hosea 5:14 to 6:2 that "He will return after 2 days...on the third day"!! Only the Fall Feast of Tabernacles in 2033 will begin with the required total Lunar bloody-red eclipse
to also fulfill Zech.14:9-16 at the first day of the Feast of Tabs and Rev.6:12 for the whole moon turning to blood.
From 1967 to 2000=33 years+33 from 2000 to 2033/5794 = 66/67 years.
Mel
2/27/2010 - 3:15 PM - GREAT AND WONDERFUL SIGN
im4God,
Jesus describes the Rapture occurring "AFTER the great tribulation":
Mark 13:
24. "In those days, AFTER that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light. 25. The stars of heaven will fall...
26. They will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27. He will send His angels and He will gather His elect together out of the four winds from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven".
In John 6:38-40:
Jesus taught that He will "raise up ALL believers on the Last Day"!
He now adds that He will "gather the Elect AFTER the great tribulation!!
If you say the "Elect" are Jews, then you have to admit the truth of my opening paragraph which, you have not yet addressed!!!
My Opening Paragraph:
After the Lamb opens the 6th Seal in Revelation, the Firstfruit of the Fall Harvest are introduced. They are sealed with the Lamb's name on the Lastday prior to being rescued by the Son of Man. Their rescue is not described immediately since John first identifies the subjects of the Harvest.
The FIRSTFRUIT are gathered first...prior to the main harvest!
These are clearly described as being Jews...FIRSTFRUIT of the Elect!
Then ALL the Elect, both Jews and Gentiles, will be gathered together!!!
You have completely ignored the teaching by the Son of Man:
One: He will raise up ALL believers on the Last Day.
Two: He will gather the Firstfruit and present them to God.
Three: They will first "sing the song of the Lamb" in God's presence.
Four: THEN the Son of Man will "gather the rest of the Elect from Earth".
Five: "He will send the angels, at a great trumpet, to gather these Elect upon and out of the 4 winds to meet Him at the Synagogue
in the Sky".
Matt.24:31; 2 Thess.2:1.
Are you 4 man's teachings; or are you 4 God?
Have you not cited your words instead of God's word??
Will you yield to the word of the Lord or stick with your own???
Mel
2/27/2010 - 7:30 PM - GREAT AND WONDERFUL SIGN
Friends,
I wrote:
The FIRSTFRUIT are gathered first...prior to the main harvest!
These are clearly described as being Jews...FIRSTFRUIT of the Elect!
Then ALL the Elect, both Jews and Gentiles, will be gathered together!!!
This does not mean "all the Elect are gathered above in the same Hour"!
The "order" of risings up at the First Resurrection is set by the events!!
The time to judge and reward all the Saints occurs at the 7th Trumpet!!!
"Chronos-Time shall be no more when this Trumpet begins to sound"!
This Trumpet alone states the "appointed time has come for judgment"!!
The Trumpet sounds the moment that Act Two of Seal #7 concludes!!!
But the Martyrs and the Firstfruit unto God and the Lamb meet first!
They sing to God on a river mixed with fire before the Temple opens!!
They must first present the Son of Man as worthy to take the Kingdom!!!
Mel
2/27/2010 - 8:00 PM - GREAT AND WONDERFUL SIGN
im4God,
You (Mel) really don't know your Bibe and again I will quote a passage but this time only part, In 1 corinthians 15:15 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and WE shall be changed, now where does it say The time to judge and reward all the Saints occurs at the 7th Trumpet. I think you better really read your Bible
I'm sorry but I thought most Bible students had read this verse which
is part of the 7th Trumpet Proclamation:
Rev.11:18: And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19: And the temple of God was opened in heaven,
God will not reward the Saints until they are all resurrected...small and
great! The passage you quote will be fulfilled at the second sounding of
the 7th Trumpet on the Last Day.
Mel
2/28/2010 - 3:00 AM - Great and Wonderful Sign
IlovetheThunder:
You wonder what proof there is that the 7th Trumpet is the Last Trump.
ONE:
Both "wrath has come and the Temple was open" occur in the past tense (aorist indicative). The 7th Trumpet Proclamation and the Great and Wonderful Sign Event state that the Temple has been opened! Only the Context, and not the aorist indicative itself in the past tense, determines when the Temple opens and when the appointed time has come for wrath upon the wicked AND Rewards to Saints!! The Day of Wrath has come (althen; aorist indicative; Rev.6:17) and now God's wrath itself (orgay) has come (althen; Rev.11:18)!!!
Rev.11:18: The nations were wrathful (orgay; not thumos), and thy wrath (orgay) has come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19: And the temple of God was opened in heaven,
TWO:
The Temple must be Open for the Last Trump to sound that the only "appointed time has come to reward the Saints, both small and great"! This is the last Trumpet because it proclaims that both reward time and wrath-time has come!! When the 7th Trumpet sounds that this time has come, "The Temple was open"!!!
Only at the 7th Trumpet is it stated the "appointed time (KAIROS) has come (past tense) for the 3 R's: Resurrection, Rewards and Retribution! Only at the 7th Trumpet and Great and Wonderful Sign does it say the "Temple was open"!! Only at a conjunction of these two events does the Text allow Martyrs and the 144,000 Firstfruit to enter the open Temple!!! ["No one can enter the Temple until the last Plague empties...since it was filled with smoke of God's glory and power during the Plagues" Rev.15:8]
THREE:
"The Plagues had finished (exhausted; aorist indicative) God's patience"!
Once again the past tense indicates the last Bowl Plague was emptied!!
The word translated wrath is not orgay; but thumos which is part of the word "makro-thumos" which always means patience or long-suffering!!!
Rev.15:1-5:
1: And I saw another sign in heaven, great and wonderful, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them was filled up the wrath of God.
[Better translations state the Plagues had "finished God's anger; fury"].
2: And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. [Temple was still filled with smoke; Rev.15:8]
3: And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and wonderful are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of nations.
4: Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest. [Manifested by the 7 Last Plagues]
5: And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was open [For the last trump to sound]
Mel
3/1/2010 - 2:00 PM - INCARCERATION, INCRIMINATION, INDICTMENT - Fifth Topic
Friends,
There must be time on the Last Day for the INCARCERATION of the wicked as the Son of Man (symbolically) reaps the earth
and AS the Lamb rescues the Firstfruit from Mt. Zion after they are sealed with His very own name!
Rev.14:
14: And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man,
having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15: And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud,
Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16: And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17: And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18: And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle,
saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19: And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath
(anger; thumos; not orgay) of God.
Then these wicked must face Incrimination in the OPEN TEMPLE after these Firstfruit "present" the Son of Man as worthy to
"take the Kingdom and come with all the Saints to give it to the people of the Saints"!! Rev.15:2-3; Dan.7:13-27.
The wicked must also be INDICTED in the Court of Seal 7 WITH the evidence of six Trumpet Judgments displayed for "about a half hour" when the Lamb opens the 7th Seal. The evidence cannot go on display to incriminate the wicked before the SCROLL opens on the Last Day!!!
Rev.8:
1: And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2: And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3: And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4: And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
5: And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
It is important to notice that the Display of the 7 Trumpet Judgments is presented as soon as the SCROLL opens! The 7 Angels appear prior to the Prayers
of the Saints collected by the 24 Elders!! The evidence (described by John afterward in a Flashback to the Holocaust that had occurred before the armies gathered to Armageddon) is the basis for the Indictment that follows the Prayers of the Saints!!!
Finally, there must be the VERDICT for God's Wrath which the 7th Trumpet Angel immediately sounds! This is the Triumphant Trumpet that leads immediately to the REJOICING in heaven because Babylon has just fallen by history's greatest quake!! The RESURRECTION and REWARDS to all the Saints takes place as Heaven opens and Christ descends with the "souls of those who sleep in Jesus" and with the 144,000 FIRSTFRUIT of the 12 Tribes of Israel who will "accompany the Lamb wherever He goes"!!! Rev.14:4.
Rev.14:1,4:
1: And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name and the name of the Lamb (best manuscripts) written in their foreheads.
4: These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the Firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5: And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Mel
3/1/2010 - 8:00 PM - INCARCERATION, INCRIMINATION, INDICTMENT OF THE WICKED
Arley,
Contrary to your assumptions, since the 6th Seal occurs ON THE DAY OF THE LORD, 3 days AFTER the end of the 1260-day Endtime, the 7th Seal also occurs ON THE DAY OF THE LORD! What happens within five Seals occurs sequentially...prior to that Day!! Each of the 7 Seals is a record not recorded within or on the back side of the SCROLL!!!
The opening two verses of the 7th Seal set the stage for presenting the evidence FROM WITHIN THE OPEN SCROLL for the very first time! That evidence, from within the Scroll, can be COPIED AND PASTED in the text of the 7th Seal!! But it first goes on DISPLAY to INCRIMINATE the wicked that the Angel of Fire confirms with the "prayers of all the Saints" that had been kept by the 24 Elders during the ENTIRE 1260 days of the Endtime Great Tribulation!!!
"No one can enter the temple", for this presentation to INCRIMINATE the wicked, "until the last (7th) Bowl Plague empties in the air"...for during the Plagues "the Temple was filled with the smoke of God's glory and power"! Rev.15:8.
The ORDER of events on the DAY of the Lord is determined by the fact that the Court of Seal 7 cannot be convened within the Temple until the martyrs (including the Two Witnesses) sing the song of Moses and the Firstfruit of the Endtime harvest are rescued from Mt.Zion and taken to heaven to witness in Act Two of the Open Temple Drama!! They enter the Temple in Act One for the Praise of the great crowds after they come out of the great tribulation; continue in the Temple for the Prayers of the Saints that confirm the evidence that INCRIMINATES the wicked already gathered to the Armageddon!!!
The INDICTMENT of the Angel of Fire is based on evidence which we can COPY and PASTE after the evidence and Verdict have been presented in Rev.8:3-5! You quoted that Verdict which is based on the evidence given during the HALF HOUR OF SILENCE and substantiated by the Saints' Prayers:
Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
What John sees from within the SCROLL, before any action by the Angel of Fire, is the 7 Angels with their Trumpets; but only six of which can be COPIED and PASTED since the 7th Angel will actually sound at the close of the Court Scene! The 7th Angel is not recorded by John until he has revealed more background evidence for the timing of God's wrath!! Five Flashbacks in the Book of Revelation determine the order of events... Flashbacks which reveal 100 events that occur on that Day!!!
Now let's COPY the action in Seal 7 that follows the Silent Half Hour:
Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour!
Your Response:
Seal Seven is broken, and the very first thing that happens is that nothing happens, unless you determine silence to be something happening. If you say that silence is something happening, I will agree with you for one reason, and that being that this will probably be the first 'silence' the Throne Room of God has ever experienced, due to the constant Praising, and Prayers being presented. //as//
Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets! Rev 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound!!
Only six of the 7 JUDGMENTS, already fulfilled, are recorded from Rev.8:7 to Rev. 9:21 where we find the reason for the Court of Seal 7...the wicked continue to blaspheme God. The Flashback to the 7 Plagues, after the Martyrs had sung the song of Moses, had already been presented by the Great and Wonderful Sign after which the Martyrs and 144,000 Firstfruit actual sing and enter the Temple. The final evidence is presented in the 7th Seal's Tribunal!!!
Mel
3/1/2010 - 9:45 PM - Great and Wonderful Sign
I love thunder:
You write:
If you read on mr eclipse .com you will seee there are several eclipses before the 2017
and there are only a certain amount of them that are full or seen by many.
Please, please, when you refer to another source, get the real information!
I went to mr.eclipse.com and he doesn't mention a single total lunar eclipse for anytime in the year of 2017!
I already knew there will not be a total lunar eclipse; but out of respect for your request, I did a double check!!
Expectation of Christ's return in 2017 is based on a false premise...that it must occur 50 years after 1967 and 70 years after 1948!!!
Mel
3/2/2010 - 9:30 AM - Great and Wonderful Sign
Thunder, Moose, Kathleen and The Other:
Thunder Wrote:
I was trying to find also where there is both lunar and solar eclipses in 2014 two each like hand in hand..Its been awhile since
I have heard this one and probably don't have it right. God Bless His Sheep. Not to forget there is lunar and solar eclipses.
You should not be looking for "solar eclipses"! There was not an eclipse of the sun at Jesus' death; nor will there be an eclipse of the sun at His S.C.; for God caused the sun to turn dark supernaturally, at His death with a natural total "blood-red moon"...while the sun was not darkened in the natural way that could later be proven to be a solar eclipse!! God caused the sun's darkness by supernatural power; for it is not physically possible to have both a normal solar and normal lunar eclipse at the same time...so, while the moon's darkness was not a "supernatural" Sign, I believe it was considered to be an omen of God's judgment!!!
We were discussing the YEAR 2017; not 2014! On a previous thread I noted that there will be a Total Lunar Eclipse (TLC) in 2014; and at least Moose understands this is NOW irrelevant because Daniel's 70th 7 did not begin in 2007!! He substantiates this pre-requisite by pointing out, 8 months in advance, that, if 2017 is the chosen date, the 70th 7 must begin in 2010!!!
The significance of the "blood-red moon" stems from the fact that it was a technical term among Jews that signified God's pre-planned SIGN at Christ's death and will be so for His S.C.! It's part of the warning of impending doom "written in the stars" from creation!! The exact timing of the Lunar Eclipse is the only predictable Sign (pre-written in the stars) that points unerringly to the time for the Fall Harvest at the Feast of Tabernacles...2000 years after Christ's death to fulfill Hosea 5:14 to 6:2
and Hosea 2:23 and Hosea 3:4-5.
[This is a paraphrase of mine]."God's OT People will be without sacrifice and without a King for many
days because I, even I, will return to My place...for two days...until they earnestly seek my face...on the third day...I will say to those who were not My people (for 2000 years after they rejected My Son): 'You are My People!' and they shall say: 'You are my God'".
I notice that you don't respond to the evidence I have given that God's wrath comes with the 7th Trumpet! It comes on the Last Day after 40 of 100 verses are fulfilled...beginning with the voice out of the Temple that "It is Done...the End has Come"!! The Great and Wonderful Sign states the Plagues had "completed (exhausted) God's patience (thumos)"... meaning there's no more extension of time to execute His wrath (orgay)!!!
The Lunar Eclipse is one of 22 major events that occur on the Last Day.
The 7th Trumpet is immediately preceded by the evidence for indicting the wicked and immediately followed by the rejoicing in heaven BECAUSE
Christ has "begun to reign".
Notice the Emphasis as Christ is crowned and "begins to reign":
Rev.11:15-17,19:
15: And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16: And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshiped God,
17: Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned (begun to reign).
19: And the temple of God was OPENED in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Immediately after the 7th Trumpet, note the rejoicing and repetition of Christ having taken His power to reign...first as the Temple was OPEN and then as Heaven OPENS: Rev.19:11 follows Rev.11:19:
1: And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2: For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
3: And again they said, Alleluia. Her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
4: And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
5: And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
6: And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
11: And I saw heaven OPENED, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
I plan to give more and more evidence that Rev.19 follows Rev.11 so that the 2nd and 3rd blasts of the 7th Trumpet quickly follow the first blast.
Mel
3/2/2010 - 11:45 AM - Great and Wonderful Sign
Rev777 wrote concerning the 4th Trumpet:
Revelation 8:
12. And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part
of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
JCL continues:
Here we see the day being shorten by a third, and the night likewise. We may be seeing as a result of the aftermaths of the first three trumpets, an acceleration in the rotation of the earth, thus shortening the days as CHRIST promised, without shortening the number of days Revelation has recorded transpiring.
Shortening the day by a third and the night likewise, will change every aspect of the moons appearance as well as the constellations. All known eclipse dates will also be altered by this event. The day will now be a 16 hour day instead of a 24 hour day. It will however qualify as a day as Genesis’s defines, still having an evening and a morning. I believe scripture indicates this event at the 4th trumpet, will happen just after the mid-point.
When CHRIST said HE will shorten the days, I can only see two possibilities of how HE will accomplish this. One, HE shortens the number of days in the last 3 ½ year period, however we are told several times in Revelation, the days are specifically numbered. The other option is CHRIST actually and literally shortens the days, in their lengths. This still shortens the time it will take for HIM to return (by hours), without shortening the number of days Revelation records as having to transpire.
If this is the case, we will then have to consider how this event at the 4th trumpet affects current dating projections for eclipses, both solar and lunar....j.m.h.o.
jcl
This is a radical view of what Jesus meant by shortening Endtime days.
Jesus referred to "Daniel's 1290 days" being made fewer in number.
Jesus reveals in Revelation they'll be cut short by less than 30 days.
God's Covenant with His former People remains in force. Jer.31:35:
Quote:
"Thus says the Lord, who gives the sun for a light by day, the ordinances of the moon and stars for a light by night...'if those ordinances depart from before Me', says the Lord, 'then the seed of Israel shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever'".
Darkening the light-giving elements of the heavens does not require a shortening of any of the last days to less than 24 hours!
These elements are "fixed" in the heavens according to God's plan, I believe, because He swore in His own name to restore Israel's Kingdom at the head of the nations as it is written in the stars!!
The 1260 days of Rev.11:3 for the Two Witnesses, and of Rev.12:6 for protecting the Jewish Remnant, are set in stone, so to speak, with just 26 or 27 days of the remaining 30 being cut short before the 7th Trumpet sounds that "God's wrath has come AND the appointed DAY" for the Resurrection and "Rewards to all the Saints, both small and great...and the destruction" of those who will have killed a third of mankind in the 6th Trumpet and gather to Armageddon in the 6th Bowl Plague!!! Rev.11:18.
Mel
3/2/2010 - 4:00 PM - Great and Wonderful Sign
Other One wrote:
Last day, I'm not looking for a solar eclipse, I'm not looking for an eclipse at all,
for I don't believe that an eclipse can turn the moon blood red. So I don't try and tie end times stuff with them at all.
I agree we cannot be looking for a solar eclipse because there will NOT be a solar eclipse!
But the significance of the TOTAL LUNAR ECLIPSE cannot be denied!! It is the only detectable
sign by which NASA and the US NAVAL OBSERVATORY have determined that April 3, AD 33 was the exact date for the death of Christ!!!
This fact was so important, in my understanding of the "two days" of Hosea 6:2, that I suddenly realized the prophecy of Joel of the
SC was applied by Peter at Pentecost to the Sign of Christ's DEATH! That is the sole factor by which we must acknowledge the SAME LUNAR SIGN applies to the date for His SC!! I cannot deny the dual fulfillment of Joel regarding this Sign!!!
Mel
3/2/2010 - 5:45 PM - Incarceration, Incrimination, Indictment of the Wicked
Arley,
Before you take time off, please correct your impression of what I wrote:
As I said at the beginning of my post, you and I see Revelation to John quite differently. I cannot find the 'flash-backs' that you see, nor do I see the Seals as 'Judgments.'
With that, I will retire to the sideline, as I have gotten into enough trouble over how I see the 'Seals' fitting separate from the Day of Jacobs Trouble.
Perhaps someone else will be able to visualize what you address, but I seem to find myself inadequate to the task.
In Messiah, His Blessing. Arley
I don't think I implied the Seals are a series of Judgments. But the Seven Trumpet Judgments are described WITHIN the SCROLL and are fulfilled prior to opening the 7th Seal on the Day of the Lord...the last day of this Age!
My use of the term "flashback" is a way to understand that the 7 Trumpet Judgments...which are described (after Seal 7 opens the SCROLL) after the 7th Seal ends...have already occurred... because Seal 7, like Seal 6, opens on the Last Day...the Day of God Almighty...the Day of His Wrath...the Day of the 7th Trumpet!!
When the Two Prophets finish their 1260-day task,
"Chronos-time shall no longer continue"...[for they are killed within the (3) days]..."whenever the mystery of God's was finished... when they have finished their 1260-day task"
...again, just 3 days prior to the 7th Trumpet!!! Rev.10:6-7; Rev.11:6-7.
Mel
3/2/2010 - 6:15 PM - Great and Wonderful Sign
Rev777 writes:
I believe you are referring to Daniel chapter 12, and yes I have considered the 30 days, plus the other 45 days mentioned following the 1260 days appointed as the fulfillment to the shortening of days CHRIST mentions. However, the number of these days aren‘t shortened. There is still 1260 day period of time mentioned, and there is still a 1290 day period, as well as a 1335 day period, all transpiring concurrently, starting at the midpoint. Here again we have clearly numbered days that must transpire, the number of days have been set to fulfill their given purpose.
This is an interesting observation...that ALL 1335 days will indeed transpire!
The 1335 days terminate with Hanukkah to dedicate the Millennial Temple!!
It is only the "length of the days of great tribulation that will be cut short"!!!
The length of the Great Tribulation (of 3.5 solar years) are actually 1290 days which is 30 days MORE than 42x30-day-Months! Therefore, it is not
the days of the 42 months that are cut short!! Only the extra 30 days... that could be part of the period of Great Tribulation...
will be shortened!!!
Mel
3/2/2010 - 6:30 PM - Incarceration, Incrimination, Indictment of the Wicked
Arley,
Thanks for your observation about reading the contents of a Book only
after it has been OPENED!
Sorry, my friend, but I do not seem to read, as you read. I am unable to know what is said inside a book, until I remove the seal, and read the book.
I leave it at that. I must stay with what my reading, and the impressions I receive from the Holy Spirit.
In Messiah. Arley
My aim is to convince others that what goes on display TO BE REVEALED
will have already been fulfilled when the SCROLL opens on the Lastday!!
To expect the 6 past Trumpet Judgments are still future makes no sense!!!
I like your attitude. Shalom.
Mel
3/2/2010 - 10:45 PM - Great and Wonderful Sign
Other One:
Thanks, you actually agreed with me in my last post:
(You wrote) "I don't think that the darkness that came over the world when Jesus died was natural".
That you agreed with me without acknowledging that fact might reveal you just want to argue for argument's sake; for I wrote:
"I agree (with you, the Other One) we cannot be looking for a solar eclipse because there will NOT be a solar eclipse"!
It's not necessary for you to agree the only known TOTAL LUNAR ECLIPSE to occur between 2015 and 2033 for the "Fall Feast of Harvest Ingathering" (of Tabernacles when Jews pray for the coming of Messiah) is 2000 years after Christ died and returned to heaven! It is significant that the year
2033 still falls within the generation that began with the first possession of Jerusalem that Jews have enjoyed for 2000 years!!
In your view, you have no predictable WHOLE MOON ECLIPSE and no specific starting point for exactly 2000 years!!!
Mel
3/3/2010 - 8:00 AM - A Great Storm Connects the 7th Seal, Trumpet and Plague - Sixth Topic
A Storm Connects 7th Seal, Trumpet and Plague
Rev.8
1: And when he had opened the 7th SEAL, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 3: And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4: And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. 5: And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
Rev.11
15: And the Angel sounded the 7th TRUMPET; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16: And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17: Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18: And the nations were angry (wrathful; orgay), and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19: And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Rev.16
17: And the 7th ANGEL poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18: And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19: And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20: And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21: And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.[/quote]
The Prayers of the Saints are presented to God in Seal 7 after the terrible signs of God's Day of Wrath give warning of His impending wrath (orgay)! The evidence of six Trumpet Judgments, having been part of the great tribulation, was presented during the half hour of silence!! It is possible that the Storm Scene at the close of the 7th Seal leads immediately to the proclamation of the 7th Trumpet Angel that “God's Wrath has Come”!!!
This possibility is reinforced by the fact that giant tsunamis begin moving the islands from their moorings as part of the warnings of Seal 6! They complete their movement toward the mainlands on the same 12-Hour Day in which the 7th Trumpet proclaims His wrath (and the wrath of the nations) has come!! During the third stage of the Storm, the most devastating disaster of history, the Cup of God's combined anger and wrath pours out its deadly wine during the 7th Bowl Plague!!!
Mel
3/3/2010 - 9:45 AM - A Great Storm
Brother Philip contends:The WHOLE 70th week is Gods wrath ----- not just a section
Zeph 1:15--- That day is a day of wrath,
A day of trouble and distress,
A day of devastation and desolation,
A day of darkness and gloominess,
A day of clouds and thick darkness,
16 A day of trumpet and alarm
Against the fortified cities
And against the high towers.The Tribulation Period is ALSO called the Day of the Lord in the Bible
Zep 1:14---------The great day of the Lord is near;
It is near and hastens quickly.
Philip please
Accept the word of Jesus Himself about the length of the Day of the Lord!
He said that Day's signs appear on a specific day after Great Tribulation!!
"AS the Day Lot left Sodom...SO the Day when the Son of Man appears"!!!
On that single Day there will be two at the Mill; two in the field working!
Only the Father knows if that single Day will be a Saturday or a Sunday!!
The sun turns dark at noon...and at evening Twilight the light will return!!!
The mountains begin disappearing and, in 6 hours, completely disappear!
The islands move out their places for 6 hours; or perhaps for 6.75 hours!!
Aftershocks of the earthquake at noontime will cause global devastation!!!
Great Tribulation is NOT a time of God's wrath; but a time for judgment!
God's Wrath occurs "in (3) days at the end" of the 1260-day countdown!!
There's no wrath until Trump #7; after 6 Plagues exhaust His patience!!!
It's a Day in which those working in the field have no time remaining!
The mountains disappear and the islands move completely out of place!!
Even Great Babylon and the cities of the nations disappear on that Day!!!
God's anger and wrath (thumos and orgay) are combined on that Day!
Christ also treads the winepress in anger and wrath on that same Day!!
Not one "taken or left" can avoid making a decision on that single Day!!!
Mel
3/3/2010 - 11:30 AM - Incarceration
Friends,
The context for Incarcerating the wicked is both figurative and literal.
The literal aspect refers to their actual gathering to the Armageddon.
The figurative aspect allows them to be reaped before the slaughter.
The figurative aspect is partly a "reaping of the tares FIRST"...Matt.13:30!
It also includes the "collecting of overripe grapes and casting them into the great winepress of God's thumos"...that's His anger; not His wrath (orgay)!! The figurative act of Reaping is accompanied by harvesting the "FIRSTFRUIT unto God and the Lamb...who follow the Lamb wherever He goes"...so they are rescued from earth and taken by the Lamb to heaven on the Last Day!!! Rev.14:1-5.
The mis-translation of casting the grapes into the "winepress of God's wrath" is premature! Not only because "thumos" means anger, but because the actual "treading of the winepress in thumos" (Rev.14:20) occurs at the "anger and wrath" of Rev.19:15!!
There can be no pouring out of the deadly "wine of the Cup of God's anger and wrath" until both are mixed together after the 7th Plague implodes!!! Rev.16:18-21.
[Rev.14:10 requires the mixture; Rev.14:19 precedes the mixture; Rev.16:18 sees that mixture poured out on the last day to
completely fulfill God's wrath over the earth following the 7th Seal and 7th Trumpet; and the slaughter of Rev.14:20 is fulfilled at Rev.19:15].
Mel
3/3/2010 - 12:00 Noon - A Great Storm
JCL,
This is the best commentary I have seen on the timing of Seal Seven!
I believe the problem many have in comprehending the concurrent perspective of the seals, trumpets, and bowls of wrath, is with the misplacement of one verse in the context of our reading of Revelation chapter 8. Verse 2 is misplaced, if it were in it’s correct place between verses 5 and 6, less confusion would follow. I have placed verse 2 between verses 5 and 6 for consideration as a possibility. Reading chapter 8 with this verse placement is much more contextual in it’s proper format, and makes more since.
Revelation 8:
1. And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
3. And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
5. And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
2. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
6. And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
We know from our previous studies, verses have been misplaced in other prophetic revelations. An example is in the book of Matthew, in chapter 24. We can clearly discern verse 28 has been misplaced. It is not in it’s proper contextual format, it should be after verses 40 and 41.
Matthew 24:
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
We can discern this by studying the parallel in Luke 17. Here we clearly see the parallel verse is in it’s proper contextual format. In reading Matthews account verse 28, doesn’t make any since in it’s current placement. If it were placed in it’s correct place, as we see in it’s parallel in Luke, the contextual clarity in Matthew would have been much clearer.
Luke 17:
34I tell you, in that night there shall be two in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
The judgment of the 7th seal is revealed in verses 1, 3, 4, and 5, ending at the great earthquake as CHRIST‘S feet touch the ground. Verse 2, in it’s proper position between verses 5 and 6, backs up in time, and begins the second series of judgments, also ending at the 7th trumpet as CHRIST’S feet touch the ground, causing the great earthquake. We see this same pattern with the bowls of wrath. These judgments begin at the very end of the covenant years, and end with the 7th bowl of wrath as CHRIST’S feet touch the ground at the great earthquake. I also believe Zechariah 14 verse 4 is a parallel to this earthquake.
At the 6th seal CHRIST has returned and has appeared to the world in the air with all the armies of heaven (Revelation 19 verse 11). The nations knowing of HIS return (Psalm 2) have already gathered their armies surrounding the area of HIS return. The world’s leaders have hid themselves in the dens of the mountains (all the underground facilities the governments in all the nations have been building, in preparation for HIS return) and tell these mountains and the rocks to hide them from the wrath of the LAMB, for HIS day (the first, of 1000 years, of evening and morning days) has come. These world leaders hide as they send their armies to their dooms.
As CHRIST descends the sky darkens, there is lightning, thunder, and of course the great earthquake as HIS feet touch the ground. The armies of the world throw everything they have (possibly even nuclear weapons) at the armies of heaven to no avail, CHRIST crushes them. The great earthquake levels everything worldwide, the cities, the mountains, and every Island. The 7th of each series happens immediately after the 6th seal, as CHRIST descends from heaven with all of HIS armies with HIM.
There however may be a possible forth series of judgments, the thunderers, John was told not to record what they uttered. We will have to wait to see what these judgments are. They could have simply uttered something in unison, whatever it is, GOD chose not to reveal it at that time....j.m.h.o. jcl
JCL:
I will make one comment about the timing of the following Sentence:
At the 6th seal CHRIST has returned and has appeared to the world in the air with all the armies of heaven (Revelation 19:11).
The world may see Christ coming after the "light returns" which would
be on Sunday for Israel rather than on Saturday or even Friday for people living far West of Israel! Christ raptures the Saints on Saturday!! But no one knows whether He will be MANIFESTED to the world on Saturday or on Sunday!!!
Mel
3/3/12:30 PM - Great and Wonderful Sign
Arley Steinhour wrote:
[Here please go to comments for 3/3/2010 - 6:30 PM]Food for thought, about something no one seems to be looking for, but how does a cycle of eclipses, sun and moon, that fall on the Feasts of God, in 2014, and 2015, coupled with a three eclipse cycle in August and September of 2016, all within six or seven weeks, at the time of the Fall Feasts of God???
Looking at the Eclipses, using our Gregorian calendar, doesn't show much, but when transferred over to the Hebrew (mechanical) calendar, one might see something that does not happen very often.
Mark Biltz has a teaching on DVD that explains the whole aspect of the eclipses that may still be available. Anyone can go to the NASA site and copy the Gregorian dates, and transfer over, with little work. My copy of my work on the subject is still locked up in my 'crashed' PC, and I cannot give you much from that.
But then, I am too windy, since no one is looking for eclipse information.
BTW: God didn't say the 'signs' would all be mountain sized meteors, and Giga-ton Nuclear blasts. He just said to look for signs in the heavens. When almost all of the Feasts of God are eclipsed, for two years, perhaps, a sign?
In Messiah. Arley
PS: Blood (looking) Lunar eclipses do happen, but not very often.
Mel
3/3/2010 - 3:00 PM - A Great Storm
JCL,
I would like to comment further on your explanation of the following:
2. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
6. And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
John recorded only the appearance of the 7 Trumpet Angels in verse 2, which we consider as being "out of place", because it was the first thing he saw happening when the Lamb broke the 7th Seal! But he "copied and pasted", so to speak, what he saw as the evidence upon which the Angel of Fire based his Verdict of Guilt and expressed that Verdict by "casting fiery coals off the Altar to the earth"!! After the Verdict, he recorded ("Pasted") what had occurred during six Trumpet Judgments of the Great Tribulation!!!
I will have more on this...and the reference to Eagles mentioned by Jesus
in the context of what will occur on the Day He comes in glory to destroy
all the wicked...including those who will be fed to the birds wherever there is "one taken and one left".
Mel
3/3/2010 - 6:00 PM - A Great Storm
LovetheThunder wonders:
I get the feeling that you think the three -sevens are going off at the same time or overlapping..one thing that I think we need to remember when we assume this is three times thru-out the revelations book it is broken up be the WOES--this is the first woe and the second and the third woe...there are many who think the trumpets vials and seals overlap and are not in order...
My Dear Friend,
I was forced to the position that the 7th Seal, 7th Trumpet and 7th Plague occur on the Last Day (in just 6 hours) for a host of reasons.
I take the word of Jesus literally that the Signs recorded in Seal Six occur on "a day immediately after the great tribulation". Mark 13:24; Matt. 24:29. The 7th Trumpet clearly occurs after the final day of 1290 days that are cut short and force the Last Day to cover the First AND/OR beginning of the Second day of the Feast of Tabernacles...Tishri 15/16. With the last Plague suspending in the air for 6 hours...as major intervening events (between Rev.16:17 and Rev.16:18) fulfill 100 verses in Revelation...until God's anger (thumos) mixes with His wrath (orgay) as of Rev.16:18!
Mel
3/3/2010 - 6:20 PM - Great and Wonderful Sign
ILoveThunder,
I'm going to apologize because I find that Perry Stone is correct!
ILOVETHUNDER wrote:
Thank you...this is what I was trying to get at ..the eclipses in 2014-15 and yes they coincide with the feasts.
My Comment was Incorrect with respect to 2015:
Only one total LUNAR ECLIPSE occurs near the Feast of Tabs in 2014;
NONE in 2015! It is the "WHOLE Moon" that must turn dark on the Last Day!! Mark Biltz may admit his error in thinking the final 7 year-period had begun in 2007...for the final 1260 days should begin as of Passover week...in the spring of 2011!!! Mel
So if the final 7-Year Period began in 2008, the Last Day could be in 2015!
I gave up on that possibility because of the "two day" view I now support!!
If a case can be made for the 70th 7 to have begun, 2015 could qualify!!!
And, in 2014 and 2015, as well as 2033, a Lunar Eclipse also occurs at
Passover time...just 3 years after the Two Prophets should appear! The Two Prophets must appear at Passover time in 2011, 2012 or 2030!! This fact is not being considered by anyone as far as I know!!!
Mel
3/4/2010 - 8:00 AM - A Great Storm
Joshleet,
You keep wondering why no one falls for denying the Signs of Seal Six launch the 22 major events occurring in 6 hours on the Day of the Lord!
You Write:
The sixth seal has been misunderstood, and IS not the day of the Lord when Christ returns. Look very close at it. There is nothing that establishes that this is what is occuring in the sixth seal.
Joel puts these signs before the Day of the Lord because the Wrath of that Day does not occur until evening! The Jewish Day begins at 6 PM!! That day, Tishri 15/16, is the single 12-Hour Day of the Lord; but it actually begins at 6PM for Israel!!!
Mel
3/4/2010 - 8:15 AM - Great and Wonderful Sign
ILoveThunder,
Please omit references to "partial" lunar eclipses as having even a slight reference to Day of the Lord! The TOTAL lunar eclipse, "blood-red moon",
was the technical term used by Jews in reference to signs of God's Wrath!!
But it's also the Sign of the Day of God's promised deliverance for Israel!!!
The interesting thing you and I have discovered together is the Whole Moon Sign at the Passover on the Day Christ died will be repeated on the day of Passover just six Months prior to His Second Coming on the Day of the Lord! This OMEN or SIGN will occur
in the spring of 2014, 2015 and 2033!! It could be the omen six months in advance of Christ's return in 2014 or 2015!!!
I am editing this because I just confirmed that, in each case, there will be a TOTAL Lunar Eclipse at Passover as well as at the
Feast of Tabs!! The dates will be April 15 and Oct.8 in 2014; April 4 and Sep.28 in 2014 and April 14 and Oct.8 in 2033!!!
Mel
3/3/2010 - 12:00 Noon - Great and Wonderful Sign
Moose,
Thanks for:
lastday wrote:
The Two Prophets must appear at Passover time in 2011, 2012 or 2030!! This fact is not being considered by anyone as far as I know!
Oh yes Mel, it is being considered.
The Two Prophets I assume are the Two Witnesses who prophesy for 1260 days, yes? They should therefore appear at the midpoint, or possibly even a few days earlier. Yet their appearing at Passover is not necessarily a fact, but rather a deduction based upon your theory of aligning the 70th week between Tab Feasts, is it not?
Or is there a scripture I have forgotten?
********************************
Moose,
I base the pinpointing at Passover time for two Scriptural reasons:
One: This is the first of three Pilgrim Festivals; one in which Jews remember their deliverance from Egypt and anticipate the final deliverance from their enemies. It is a custom among Jews to keep a glass at the table hoping Elijah might return at Passover to fulfill Malachi.
Two: The Feast of Tabs, the third Pilgrim Festival, occurs exactly 1263 days after the Two Prophets appear...if they should appear on the 7th Day of Passover Week of the Feast of Unleavened Bread! Revelation requires they rise up 3 days after completing their 1260 day task...on the Day of the 7th Trumpet...the Last Trump!! It will take much discussion to support the Day of the Lord as the very Day on which the 7th Trump must sound!!!
Mel
3/4/2010 - 3:00 - Great and Wonderful Sign
lastday wrote:
One: It is a custom among Jews to keep a glass at the table hoping Elijah might return at Passover to fulfill Malachi.
Moose Writes:
I can't help but notice that Elijah is one man, not two. How does this relate to the Two Witnesses?
lastday wrote:
Two: The Feast of Tabs, the third Pilgrim Festival, occurs exactly 1263 days after the Two Prophets appear...
You left out the chapter and verse again. Moose
***************************************
Malachi, the last recorded OT Prophet, predicted the coming of Elijah before the great and wonderful Day of the Lord. Revelation picks up on this very prophecy regarding the Martyrs of the "Great and Wonderful Sign" in heaven on the Day the Two Witnesses
rise up from the dead and ascend to heaven to sing the Victory Song of Moses"!
Zechariah 4:11 talks about Joshua and Zerubbabel building the second Temple as the Two Candtlesticks and Two Olive Trees. Revelation 11:4 (notice 4:11 and 11:4) picks up on this in reference to the Two Witnesses who "stand before the God of earth"
to demonstrate God's Kingdom Power for 1260 days until they are killed...but they rise up in 3 days!! Rev.11:7-12.
(You can look up the verses if you are quite concerned).
Zechariah also tells about the Day of the Lord on which these Two Witnesses arise from the Dead. It is the Day of the Lord when
"all the saints come with Him (I Thess.3:13; Zech.14:5) and He becomes the King of the Nations" to fulfill Zech.14:9 and Rev.15:4.
So the Two Witnesses must return to earth (the 2nd time) to fulfill the hope of Believers AND fulfill His promise to deliver Israel
ON THAT DAY!!!
Moose, sometimes you refer to Tradition for the impact of Scripture on people...whether that impact is good or bad!
The Jews expect Elijah!!
We expect Jesus; and I look for Elijah and John, tradition's impact on me. We will both say Halellujah when that Day Arrives!!!
Mel
3/4/2010 - 6:00 PM - Great and Wonderful Signs
IloveThunder,
You Write:
Your need to justify with documented and predicted eclipses doesn't need to be..God is obviously going to bring on a
load of surprises so why can't it just happen? None of the other happenings are predicted in science for the most part.
Its cool when we can prove things this way but we know better that God is great and can make a lunar or solar eclipse happen even if it isn't predicted.
Also who is to say that this is what they are . Logic says that is what they are but it could happen some other way.
*******************************************
Why mention the unpredictable prophecies of the Mayans?
Why dismiss the importance of proven predictable signs?
Are you excited at Christ's birth written in the signs of Rev.12?
These heavenly signs were first discovered by Newton!
The discovery led to his book on Daniel's 70th Seven!!
Prerequisite Sign like the "sun darkens" is supernatural!!!
A visible sign for Israel will be the invasion of armies to Armageddon.
Seven classes of men will take to the mountains in fear for their lives.
The "sun turning dark supernaturally at noon" is the first unique sign.
Killing the Two Prophets will set-off a global three days of celebration.
The wicked will fulfill the prediction of men saying "peace and safety".
The presence of millions of birds flying overhead will be a real sign.
Two great quakes will occur...one destroying 7000 VIPs in Jerusalem.
A remnant will rejoice at seeing the Two Prophets ascend to heaven.
Many will observe the Lamb rescuing the 144000 Jews from Mt. Zion.
I believe Jews will notice the sudden disappearance of Christians.
That occurs after the Prophets arise because all "come with Jesus".
Those left behind will choose to "beg for mercy" or be fed to the birds.
Mel
3/4/2010 - 1:00 PM - Great and Wonderful Sign
SavedOnce,
Mel Wrote:
The "sun turning dark supernaturally at noon" is the first unique sign.
You Wrote:
If it is supernatural it will be when no one expects it. No one expected the darkness at the cross which
is why the predicted eclipses are not a sure bearing of Christ's return.
*****************************************************************************
Dr. Mark Biltz is highly recognized for his knowledge of Jewish Festivals.
His idea is being accepted by many of the Lunar Eclipse being a Predictable
Sign for the Second Coming of Christ. At first he thought it would occur in 2014 and now he is suggesting 2015.
I favor the year 2033.
The Sun turning dark is not Predictable because it will be supernatural. The Total Lunar Eclipse is always in the middle of the month of Passover and/or of the Feast of Tabernacles for the Fall Harvest Ingathering.
In the case of Passover the unique, natural, Sign of Christ's death and His approaching Apocalyptic Presence could be considered the FIRST unique sign because it
is Predictable. We just don't know which Year it will occur.
But once the Two Prophets arrive at Passover time...to be attended by a TOTAL LUNAR ECLIPSE 3 years later, we will "know the Year and the Month" of Christ's Return. We can't know the Day of His Appearance; but every Believer must rise up on the same last Day. John 6:38-40, 44,54.
For the Jews, the Day of Christ's appearance could be Saturday or Sunday.
Mel
3/5/2010 - 6:30 PM - Great and Wonderful Sign
SavedOnce:
I think the second coming will be earlier even though 2033 is 40 years after the Oslo accords or right around. I still think that it is in the 70 year window of 1948 even though nobody really knows. Everything that happened during 1938 through world war 2 as far as hating the Hebrews is going on now.
The consensus among Believers continues to grow that Christ's return ought to occur in the next seven years.
I go for the later date of 2033 because there is the necessity of convincing Muslims it is in their interest to enter an agreement with Israel to start a period of peace that will be interrupted by the War of Gog and Magog. That War follows the removal of "walled villages with bars and gates...when Israel dwells safely" as required by Ezek.38:8-14.
The result of this War finds the nations realizing that God is the God of Israel. "I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the Lord". Ezek.38:23.
This period of peace is no where in the foreseeable future...as long as Iran continues its pursuit of nuclear power and vows to destroy Israel.
Iran must be forced to recognize they cannot win against Israel. Then
they may be willing to enter a peace that begins to fulfill Dan.9:27.
Mel
3/5/2010 - 11:00 PM - Great and Wonderful Sign
LovetheThunder,
You wrote:
Won't the anti christ bring the peace on and it will be for a short time?
There was movement freely at times but that has not been the case since
all the terrorism...I can see it happening soon and not twenty years.
***************
First, it is only 16 years until the beginning of the 2nd period of peace...the peace that is still illusive but which begins the final 7-Year-Period from 2026 to 2033. I am talking about a prior period of peace that ends with the War of Gog/Magog and which will come in a few years. That period of peace cannot begin without removing the "walls and gates of the villages in Israel and with Israel dwelling in peace and safety". Ezek.38:8,11,14.
God's purpose for this War, that breaks the first Period of Peace, is that the "NATIONS MAY KNOW GOD WHEN HE IS HALLOWED (SANCTIFIED) IN THESE NATIONS BEFORE THE EYES OF ISRAEL...WHEN GOD FULFILLS HIS PROMISE TO BRING THESE NATIONS AGAINST ISRAEL". Ezek.28:16-17.
This first Period of Peace is not like that which begins the second Period of Peace under the Antichrist. This first Period will be adjudicated under
the auspices of Mystery Babylon the Great years before the Ten Kings destroy her. IMO, Babylon's destruction occurs at midpoint of the second Period of Peace in 2030.
Who among today's prognosticators recognizes the Role of the Harlot,
Mystery Babylon, in bringing all the nations, rulers and religions together for this first Period of Peace? It will take several years to bring them together.
The Ten Kings that will destroy Babylon under the 2nd Period of Peace
must first be convinced by the War of Gog/Magog that God is on the side of Israel and that they must use subtle, Trojan-type tactics to topple Israel after they confiscate the System ruled by Babylon the Great.
This factor of the first Period of Peace needed to HALLOW God in the eyes of Nations is the primary event not being recognized as the precursor to
the second Period of Peace. Antichrist will agree to the second period when he and the Ten Kings (who will be defeated by God in the War of Gog) realize they "can't beat em; so they will join em". Satan knows this
even as the nations are being brought together for the first Peace Period.
Mel
3/7/2010 - 7:45 - Great and Wonderful Sign
Saved Once,
I wrote:
The "sun turning dark supernaturally at noon" is the first unique sign.
Your response fails to appreciate the fact that Lunar signs are KNOWN.
No one expected the darkness at the cross which is why the predicted eclipses are not a sure bearing of Christ's return.
***********************
They didn't realize in advance that Lunar Eclipses would be significant!
Only because of Newton's laws have we now confirmed their significance!!
We should anticipate their occurrences as specific signs now that we know the very day Christ died!!!
The Total Lunar Eclipse is one of the Predictable signs of the Last Day!
Many of us disregard Daniel's prediction that knowledge would increase!!
Even with the knowledge we now have, there are many skeptics among us!!!
We are guilty of also disregarding Jesus' words that we will "know when the End is Near". He wants us to know as part of our preparation for His
return. We should use that knowledge to make plans for the Endtime, the signs of which we Keep talking about
but which you Keep minimizing.
Mel
3/7/2010 - 7:00 PM - Great and Wonderful Sign
Friends,
My purpose for introducing this GREAT AND WONDERFUL Sign was to show it is the final Sign in Heaven before any one enters the Temple for a Three-Act Drama on the Day that begins with the Signs of Seal Six.
This means the Sign occurs while the sun remains dark and the last Plague remains suspended in the air. The Sign States that the Plagues had finished God's anger (thumos; not orgay for wrath). When the word "thumos" is preceded by makro, it means longsuffering or patience. God's thumos by itself must be exhausted; then God's wrath can be declared as having come! Rev.15:1.
Not only does the Sign itself reveal God's patience had been exhausted; but the Martyrs sing that God's deeds in the Plagues had been "holy and just". They actually echo the Angel of the Altar during the Plagues having stated God's deeds were "holy and just". Rev.16:5-9. The wicked have refused to repent of their evil deeds and now it is time for God's wrath!!
Rev.15:4.
The 144,000 had been sealed with the Father's name during the great tribulation; and now they have been sealed with the Lamb's name...right after the signs of Seal 6 that begin the 22 major events of the last day.
They join the Martyrs who sing the song of Moses by singing the song of the Lamb. They fulfill Daniel's prophecy by "presenting" the Son of Man
to the Ancient of Days so that He might "take the Kingdom and come to earth with all the Saints and give the kingdom to the people of the Saints"
Dan.7:13-27!!!
ONLY THEN DOES THE TEMPLE OPEN FOR THE THREE-ACT DRAMA which
is described in Rev.7:9-11 for PRAISING God and the Lamb. And in the 7th Seal of Rev.8:1-5 they offer their PRAYERS. And in Act Three, the
7th angel PROCLAIMS that "God's wrath has come". Rev.11:15-18. It is the End.
Mel
3/11/2010 - 5:33 PM - Great and Wonderful Sign
Friends,
The Great and Wonderful Sign concerns the 12-Hour Day of the Lord! It occurs after the last Plague of God's anger (not wrath) empties in the air!!
This Sign occurs as part of the 22 major events that fulfill 100 verses in the Book of Revelation on the Last Day...the Day of of the First Resurrection!!!
This is the final Sign in Heaven before any one enters the Temple for the 3-Act Drama of Testimony, Tribunal and Trumpet of God's wrath. The Sign declares "God's judgments in the Plagues had exhausted His anger". The Martyrs, coming out from under the Altar, and the Firstfruit, rescued from earth, present
the Son of Man with the song of Moses and the song of the Lamb before God who sits on a crystal sea mixed with fire. Rev.15:2-3; Dan.7:9-27.
The Sign occurs while the sun remains dark and the last Plague remains suspended in the air. The Plagues had finished God's anger (thumos; not orgay or wrath). When "thumos" is preceded by makro, it means patience or long-suffering. Only with God's thumos having been "exhausted" may His wrath be declared as "having come"! Rev.15:1; Rev.11:18..
The wicked have refused to repent of their evil deeds and now it is time for God's wrath! The 144,000 had been sealed with the Father's name during the great tribulation; and now have been sealed with the Lamb's name...right after the signs of Seal 6 that begin the 22 major events of the last day!! They fulfill Daniel's prophecy by "presenting" the Son of Man to the Ancient of Days so that He might "take the Kingdom, come with the Saints and give the kingdom to the people of the Saints"!!! Dan.7:13-27.
The Temple 3-Act Drama is described in Rev.7:9-11 for PRAISING God and the Lamb; in the 7th Seal of Rev.8:1-5 for their PRAYERS; and in Act Three, the 7th angel PROCLAIMS "God's wrath has come". Rev.11:15-18. The End has come as of the 7th Seal, 7th Trumpet and the 7th Plague.
Mel
3/11/2010 - 6 PM - Great and Wonderful Sign
Brother Philip Wrote:
When Iran gets a good few bombs they simply will not keep them hidden --------- THEY WILL USE THEM AND PUSH THE LIMIT
I responded:
Iran is identified among the nations surrounding Israel and also from the "far north" who will invade Israel when Israel "dwells securely without walled villages".
I don't think Iran will act alone in the War of Gog/Magog; nor will she come against Israel prior to the UN getting all the nations to agree to Mideast peace.
Phil, you expect too much between Nov/Dec of this year and the spring of 2014 in order for the Endtime to begin with Ten Kings destroying Mystery Babylon and giving their authority to Antichrist. Iran will invade Israel and be totally defeated by God Himself, during a time of Peace yet to be realized, before the 3.5 years of the Covenant of Dan.9:27 will be signed.
The global government that brings the Peace in Israel and is later interrupted by the War of Gog/Magog will come years prior to the final Endtime of 42 months!
It just can't happen in the next 3.5 years because there must be a global economic collapse and a world economic system in place first!! The global government must be agreed to...and then the peace be broken by the invasion of IRAN and a coalition of nations!!! Mel
Your Point:
As far as Iran No it wont act alone it, will have Russia "puppeting" it and supporting it along with other nations------------ with this worlds technology we can DEVASTATE in a matter of Hours
The Gog magog / Ez 38 war will trigger a 7 year agreement , you will SEE------------- and Israel ITSELF WON BACK Jerusalem in 6 days------------ so I dont think i am expecting too much.
Philip,
I agree these two Wars will be short...both that of Gog/Magog and that of the Destruction of Great Babylon by the Ten Kings! But each is preceded by totally separate Periods of Peace!! The Ten Kings destroy this City in One Hour; but the destruction by God of the Nations in the Gog/Magog war will precede that of Babylon's destruction by too many years for either prophecy to be fulfilled by 2014!!!
Mel
3/12/2010 - 5:45 PM - Great and Wonderful Sign
WAKE-UP WONDER in Heaven,
God had told the Martyrs they must "wait until the rest of those among their brethren and fellow-servants should be killed as they had been killed".
This is not an ultimatum; but the assurance that God's purpose will be fulfilled in His time alone. What, then, is the first indication that the "End has Come"?
In reading Revelation, we first see the Martyrs "coming out of the great tribulation" in chapter 7 and wonder why they meet in the PRESENCE of God and
the Lamb so early in the narrative. Eight chapters later we find "no one enters the Temple to PRAISE God or the Lamb during the Plagues while the smoke
of God's power and glory fill the Temple". Rev.15:8. Do they have a preferred meeting with God OR is this meeting preceded by the time of testing that
requires faithfulness to God until His patience with the wicked is totally exhausted?
The "End has come" when Six Plagues have proved that God's deeds are holy and just...and it is the reason for God's wrath and not an extension of the
Day of the Lord! The 7th Plague is not yet God's Wrath when it "empties
in the air"; but it signals the Lamb to launch the Day of their Wrath. At what more appropriate time could the Martyrs sing their victory song of Moses and
for the 144,000 Firstfruit to meet God for the first time?
Indeed, "the Temple of the Tabernacle of the Testimony opens" as soon as the "Plagues exhaust God's Patience" and the the Songs of Moses and the Lamb
provide the WAKE-UP call for action within the Temple. According to John's method of writing, he first reveals the setting before describing preceding events.
Instead of projecting the need for more days or months for events of the the Day of the Lord as suggested by the Pre-Wrath teachers, may it not rather be
the message of the Great and Wonderful Sign and these Songs is to prepare for their meeting with God and the Lamb in the Temple for PRAISE and PRAYERS
and the PROCLAMATION that "God's wrath has come"? Rev.11:18.
Mel
3/14/2010 - 6 PM - Firstfruit unto God and the Lamb
Firstfruit unto God and the Lamb
Rev.7:1-4:
1: And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2: And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3: Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4: And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev.14:1-5:
1: And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2: And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4: These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5: And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Rev.15:1-5:
1: And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
2: And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
3: And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
4: Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
5: And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
****************************************************
These fourteen verses will be fulfilled before, during and after the Great and Wonderful Sign.
They reveal God's plan for 144000 “blameless Jews who follow the Lamb wherever He goes”.
These scenes will occur AFTER the 7 Last Plagues demonstrate and "exhaust God's patience".
The 200-million soldiers from the East have gathered over the 180 mile plains of Armageddon.
The armies will have killed a third of mankind over an area that includes a quarter of the earth.
God's decree at the 7th Plague had indicated the “End Has Come”; there's no extension of days.
The 144000 are sealed, rescued from earth, presented to God as they sing the song of the Lamb.
All the Martyrs join them to sing the song of Moses before the Temple opens for a Three-Act Drama.
The Firstfruit are harvested before the rest of the Saints come with the Lamb to rule the earth.
The Temple Drama's three scenes are described before John records the Great and Wonderful
Sign and these songs of victory. The purpose is to focus attention on the critical and climactic
nature of the Drama that includes the Praise and Prayers of the Saints (Acts One and Two) on
the Day Christ presents the Firstfruit of the Lastday's Feast of Ingathering on Tishri 15. It is
one of the predicted days of a Total Lunar Eclipse over the Americas and parts of Asia.
Daniel connects the “presentation” of the Son of Man to the Ancient of Days with the Court
of Judgment (Act Two) and Coronation of Christ (Act Three). These Three Acts are the immediate precursors
of His descent with the Saints to “take the Kingdoms of earth and give them to the people of the
saints”. Dan.7:9-27. There is no passage of “days” between the Court's Judgment (Seal 6) and
the Proclamation that “God's wrath has come” in Act Three. Rev.8:1-5; Rev.11:15-19. There,
at the 7th Trumpet with the "Temple Open" (Rev.11:19), John concludes it is the appointed time to “judge and
reward the saints...an act that occurs on that same Day as Christ comes in glory with all the Saints”.
Rev.11:18; Matt.16:27.
Mel
3/17/2010 - 9:15 AM - Firstfruit Unto God and the Lamb
Bill writes:
1 Cor 15:
20: But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23: But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
144,000 are not in this passage as firstfruits of the resurrection. Doesn't that make the 144,000 firstfruits
of a separate harvest?
************************************************************
We cannot delete the Rapture from Rev. just because it is not mentioned.
We cannot remove the Saints of Rev.11:18 from the Rapture just because
members of the Church are not named as being "appointed to receive rewards on the Day Christ comes in glory and power with the Angels to reward every believer". Rev.11:18; Matt.16:27. Nor can we dismiss the
144,000 who will be "kept safe and nourished in the desert for 1260 days" from being rescued and taken to heaven
to sing the Song of the Lamb
AFTER six Plagues have "demonstrated that God's deeds are holy and just".
"The TEMPLE OF THE TABERNACLE OF THE TESTIMONY" does not open until the Plagues have exhausted God's anger (patience; makrothumos). Rev.15:5.
"No one can enter the TEMPLE" while the Two Prophets manifest
God's Kingdom Power and the Plagues complete God's patience. All the Martyrs "remain under the Altar" until the Day of Wrath which will begin
with signs in the Sun/Moon and a great quake in Israel.
So the 144,000 enter the Temple AFTER they are rescued from earth and AFTER they "sing their song before God seated on a blazing Throne over a crystal sea/river mixed with fire". Dan.7:9-10; Rev.15:2-3. "The TEMPLE was
filled with the smoke of God's glory and power until the last Plague empties in the air". Rev.15:8.
The 144,000 stand before God prior to the 3-Act Temple Drama wherein
they PRAISE God and the Lamb (Act One; Rev.7:9-17); offer PRAYERS
to God (Act Two; Rev.8:1-5) and hear the PROCLAMATION that "God's
wrath has come and the appointed time" for Resurrection, Rewards and Retribution. There it says: "The Temple was Open". Rev.11:15-19.
The Firstfruit of 144,000 are both part of the Bride of the Lamb (since they "accompany Him wherever He goes") and also part of the Nation
of Israel who are redeemed and take possession of the Kingdom! This can only occur on the Day Christ comes with them and with ALL the Saints!! So they must be part of the "rest of the Saints who join the
Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven" on the last Day!!!
Mel
3/18/2010 - 11:30 AM - FIRSTFRUIT - Response to Bill's request at 8:07 AM.
Bill,
The Precedent for the Endtime Harvest is the Hebrew Festival of Sukkot.
The following info is from Ami Yisrael Fellowship in Texas and it may be
accessed at http://season-of-our-joy.com:
The Feast of Tabernacles from an Agricultural Perspective
In ancient Israel, Pesach [Passover] corresponded to the planting season, Shavuot [Pentecost] corresponded to the grain harvest, and Sukkot corresponded to the fruit harvest. When you planted your crops in Spring, you do not yet rejoice because you were uncertain about how the harvest will turn out. And when you harvested your grain at the start of summer, you might have rejoiced that you now had bread in hand, but you would still be uncertain about the success of your fruit crops. Total joy would come after you had harvested all of your crops in the Fall, and thereby received sustenance and provision for the coming year from the Almighty. For this reason, Sukkot is sometimes referred to as the Feast of Ingathering.
From a spiritual perspective, Sukkot corresponds to the joy of knowing that the penalty phase for sin had once again been set aside (during Yom Kippur), and also recalls Gods miraculous provision and care after the deliverance from bondage in Egypt (Leviticus 23:43). Prophetically, Sukkot anticipates the coming kingdom of the Mashiach Yeshua wherein all the nations shall come up to Jerusalem to worship Yahweh during the festival of Sukkot (see Zechariah 14:16).
The total Joy expressed in Psa.118 occurs at the Endtime Harvest of Sukkot (called the Feast of Tabernacles or Ingathering). Jesus highlighted His Mission at this annual Festival of Lights and Pouring of Water from the Pool of Siloam. John 7:37-38. On the Day He comes as Messiah-King (Zech.14:9-16), He will create the River of Living Water that will flow from Mt. Olives to the Mediterranean Sea and provide the "fruit and leaves of the tree required for healing the nations" during the Millennium. Exek.47:12. The same "leaves of the tree" will continue throughout eternity to provide "healing"
for the Kings of the Nations who bring their "honor and glory into the New Jerusalem". Rev.21:24-26; Rev.22:2,14 (Tree of Life).
At the End of the Age Harvest, according to Matt.13:30,38-43, Jesus will separate the tares, the sons of Satan,
from the "righteous sons of the Kingdom".
Since Sukkot, observed at the Fall Harvest from Tishri 15-21, is the time for Israel's Joy and expectation of their Messiah, and since the
15th is a Sabbath, their celebration begins at 6 PM, Tishri 16, at the start of Sunday.
I believe this second Day will begin the Millennial Day of the Lord.
The Tares must be reaped FIRST. Matt.13:30. I believe this will occur on the Day of Wrath...the final day of this present Age...Tishri 15...three days after the Two Prophets complete their task to "Manifest God's Kingdom Power and Prepare for the Restoration of All Things"...and that is why Peter preached that Jesus must remain in Heaven until that time has come. Matt.17:11; Acts 3:19-21.
In Revelation we have the twofold symbolic reaping of the Earth by the Son of Man and by angels of the overripe fruit into the "Wine-press of God's Anger (Thumos; not Orgay)". Just before this symbolic reaping, we find the Lamb rescuing the 144,000 "FIRSTFRUIT unto God and Himself" as He takes them from Mt. Zion and then waits on the white cloud to reap the wicked of the earth and the armies at Armageddon to the Wine-press.
This two-fold stage of Reaping occurs on the Day of God's Wrath...but it occurs hours prior to the Rapture of all the Saints.
It is absolutely necessary for the Son of Man to fulfill Daniel's prophecy to "present the FIRSTFRUIT unto God" before the Court sits in Judgment upon those already literally gathered to Armageddon and symbolically reaped by the three angels...one of them being the Angel of Fire who presides over the Tribunal of Seal 7. It is also necessary that the FIRSTFRUIT present the LAMB as entitled to the Crown by which the Angel of the 7th Trumpet sounds that He has "begun to reign".
The final Stage of the Harvest requires that "God Himself will bring the souls of ALL the Saints WITH Jesus Christ" (I Thess.4:13-14), including the souls of the Martyrs seen in Act One of the OPEN Temple Drama, and that the Son of Man will "gather (rapture) the rest of the Saints upon the four winds from the earth (for He alone knows who they are) and that He will send the angels to complete the gathering out of the four winds from all extremities of the sky". Paul says we will meet one another at the "Synagogue" in the Sky. 2 Thess.2:1.
Mel
3/22/2010 - 9:00 PM - Great and Wonderful Sign
This Final Sign in Heaven Focuses on the Critical Events of the Last Day.
The last martyr has been killed. The voice out of the temple has decreed:
"The End has come". The 144,000 Firstfruit unto God and the Lamb have
been "redeemed from earth". The armies from the lands of the rising sun have killed a third of mankind over a quarter of the earth with sulfur, fire and brimstone. The wicked had refused to repent and are allowed to invade Israel in the 6th Plague. The Signs of the Day of God's wrath on the final Saturday of the Daniel's 70th Seven strike fear into the hearts of the wicked as its 4 great hurricane winds and surging tsunamis devastate earth's mountains and cities and remove the islands out of their places.
The Cup of God's anger-filled-wrath fills the Hour of Trial as the Saints finish their rejoicing in heaven on the Day of Wrath. They descend from heaven with the Lamb and meet those raised up from earth. They receive their rewards and unite as the One Bride of the Lamb with the angels bringing each member of the Bride to the Synagogue in the sky.
The angels come in the glory of the Lamb who "brings His rewards with
Him to reward every believer". Matt.16:27; Rev.22:12. During this Hour of Trial, the tribes of earth "mourn and beg to escape all these things that happens" until Christ appears...perhaps on Saturday; but, for all who seek not to save themselves, it may be Saturday or Sunday that they are "kept alive" and enter the Kingdom of Earth to begin the 1000-Year-Day of the Lord.
Mel
3/26/2010 - 10:30 AM - Great and Wonderful Sign
Friends,
Over and over I have reminded my readers that God's wrath does not
begin until the 7th Plague empties in the air and remains suspended while
the required events in the OPEN Temple take place.
The Great and Wonderful Sign occurs while the last Plague remains in suspension and the sun remains dark and the required action occurs in the OPEN Temple. This Sign, which occurs after the beginning of the Warning Signs of Seal Six, states that the Plagues had finished God's anger (thumos; not orgay for wrath). When the word "thumos" is preceded by makro, it reveals that God's long-suffering (makro-thumos) has not yet turned to Wrath. God's thumos by itself must be exhausted during the 7 Bowl Plagues before God's wrath can be declared as having come! Rev.15:1.
Two responders, Josh and Coop, deny the WARNINGS of Seal 6 occur on the Last Day of Daniel's 70th Seven...by claiming its warnings occur twice and/or that men are "mistaken in thinking the Day of God's wrath has come". But the SIGNS are unmistakably given by John and by Jesus as the immediate precursors of the events of that Last Day!!
My claim is that the PRAISE and PRAYERS in the OPEN Temple from Rev.7:9 to Rev.8:5 occur after all the Martyrs come out from under the Altar,
meet God on the river/sea of fire pictured by Rev.15:2 and by Daniel as the most expectant sign of Christ's Coronation and the Court of Judgment against the wicked Beast...who will be cast into Hell on the Last Day. Dan.7:9-27.
This is the setting for the 7th Trumpet to PROCLAIM that God's wrath has come...for the "TEMPLE WAS OPEN" as Christ is Crowned and the only
reference occurs that the "appointed time to judge and reward the Saints and to destroy the wicked" also has come!!!
To this point no one has disputed that God continues to show His patience during the Signs of Seal 6 and also during the suspension of the 7th Plague! That is until, finally, with the evidence in the Court of Dan.7 and Seal 7 (of 6 Trumpet Judgments that go on Display from within the OPEN Scroll)...these Judgments are seen as occurring during Great Tribulation. The armies of the 6th Trumpet have gathered to Armageddon and the Saints "watch with such great expectation for Christ's coming as a thief" that they take no time off to shower or sleep. Rev.16:15.
Mel
3/28/2010 - 7:00 PM - Great and Wonderful Sign
Bill,
Christ was the Firstfruit of the Resurrection. The 144,000 are Firstfruit unto God and the Lamb at the Second Coming...Prior to the Rapture; but still on the Last Day
to fulfill Christ's promise to "raise up all believers on the Last Day". Again, the Firstfruit are rescued from Mt. Zion on the Day of the
Resurrection of all believers...
which also includes that of the two Prophets.
Fall is the season for harvest festivals.
God instituted the Fall Feast of Ingathering as a special harvest festival. Exodus 23:16; 34:22. The Israelites were instructed to bring a tenth of their harvest along with firstborn animals of their herds and flocks to a central location to rejoice with other families by feasting and sharing their harvest bounty with the needy. Deuteronomy 14:22-27.
All nations will begin keeping the Feast of Tabernacles as their annual harvest festival of thanksgiving. Zechariah 14:16. When Jesus Christ returns to earth to establish the Kingdom of God on earth, the dead in Christ will be resurrected to eternal life and will rule with him for a thousand years. 1 Corinthians 15:50-52, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.
On the last Day, the 144,000 are sealed, rescued from earth FIRSTFRUIT unto God as they sing the song of the Lamb. All the Martyrs join them to sing the song of Moses before the Temple opens for the Last Day's Three-Act Drama.
These Firstfruit are harvested before they and the rest of the Saints come with the Lamb to rule the earth. At the 7th Trumpet, with the "Temple Open" (Rev.11:19),
John concludes it is the "appointed time to judge and reward the saints...an act that occurs on that same Day as Christ comes in glory with all the Saints”. Rev.11:18; Matt.16:27; Zech.14:5-16.
Mel